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Class System Suggestion - AriaSings
Raith Offline
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Post: #31
RE: Class System Suggestion - AriaSings
(12-09-2011 09:08 AM)Lamb Wrote:  Hmm...maybe you guys could implement something which allows only the use of Monsters in a certain class when you are challenging someone for a PvP match? For example, there could be a question asking, "Which Monster class should be allowed in this match?" or something and then there could be a dropdown menu with all the Monster classes. You could use my tier system to define what Monsters would be allowed in each class. So, if you chose the Regular class in the dropdown menu, then only Monsters from the Regular and Starter classes would be allowed to be used in that battle. I think that would give players an incentive to use some of the Monsters which are not competitively viable in the current PvP system.

That's the thing; your idea would make more sense if first the gap between Regular, Superior, and Emissary was semi-bridged so that even if the player didn't have a team of Emissaries, they could still be able to beat one if he plays intelligently. Hence PvP is a little more thrilling because the underdog is not necessarily wiped out.
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12-09-2011 09:35 AM
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Lamb Offline
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Post: #32
RE: Class System Suggestion - AriaSings
So really most of the problems with PvP and stuff would be solved by changing the stats of basically every Monster. Nothing will have to be done with the classes if the stats are fixed.
12-09-2011 09:41 AM
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Pein Offline
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Post: #33
RE: Class System Suggestion - AriaSings
i totally agree with this because most users tend to use only zenith and above until recently emissaries werent even picked so i say abandon it except for starters zeniths legends and ancients
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12-09-2011 09:41 AM
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Post: #34
RE: Class System Suggestion - AriaSings
(12-09-2011 07:59 AM)Nitz_X Wrote:  You bring forth a common sense problem with a common sense solution.

You have my full support dei, I hope this goes someplace.

its arias idea.-.READ NITZ
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12-09-2011 10:38 AM
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AriaSings Offline
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Post: #35
RE: Class System Suggestion - AriaSings
I mean rarity of a monster does not have to correspond with stats.

If you collapse regulars, superiors, emissaries, and zeniths, into one class with similar stats, then that will easily solve the problem. Monsters can still have the same catch rates as they do now. Thus, a monster's rarity will be based on it's ability to be caught rather than on stats. This will preserve "a sense of rarity" but also mend the problem with pvp.

If you keep zeniths, then the same stigmatism is going to exist. The only way to fix it is to get rid of all classes except for starters, legendaries, and ancients. Other monsters will just have no class.
(12-09-2011 09:41 AM)Pein Wrote:  i totally agree with this because most users tend to use only zenith and above until recently emissaries werent even picked so i say abandon it except for starters zeniths legends and ancients
I agree with what you are saying. But also consider the stigmatism against the very name of the classes. If the first thing that a user looks at is the class, then that's a problem because it's creating an undesirable class of monsters. You can keep the same catch rates and change the stats. The thing that is truly going to make a difference if you remove the classification system. We will know which monsters are rare based on their catch rate.
(This post was last modified: 12-09-2011 11:08 AM by AriaSings.)
12-09-2011 11:05 AM
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SkyRock Offline
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Post: #36
RE: Class System Suggestion - AriaSings
Bavante...no you can't become a normal monster! Nooooo!!
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12-09-2011 03:32 PM
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PcKaveman Offline
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Post: #37
RE: Class System Suggestion - AriaSings
(12-09-2011 09:41 AM)Lamb Wrote:  So really most of the problems with PvP and stuff would be solved by changing the stats of basically every Monster. Nothing will have to be done with the classes if the stats are fixed.
Just trying to make sense of this statement... the problems with pvp are that everyone will be using the same 100 monsters while completely ignoring the other 500+ monsters and that it is clear that changing the stats of most monsters (not basically every monster). Most monsters meaning everything above starters, and below zeniths and the emissary class could stay the same. If all these are changed and new monsters with different abilities and typing are now useable.... I have to disagree that nothing will have been done with the classes. A bunch will become absorbed into just one class if the stats are fixed. Thus this would increase the amount of monsters available to compete on the emissary and legendary tiers.
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12-10-2011 05:11 AM
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SparrowHawk Offline
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Post: #38
RE: Class System Suggestion - AriaSings
(12-09-2011 11:05 AM)AriaSings Wrote:  I mean rarity of a monster does not have to correspond with stats.

If you collapse regulars, superiors, emissaries, and zeniths, into one class with similar stats, then that will easily solve the problem. Monsters can still have the same catch rates as they do now. Thus, a monster's rarity will be based on it's ability to be caught rather than on stats. This will preserve "a sense of rarity" but also mend the problem with pvp.

If you keep zeniths, then the same stigmatism is going to exist. The only way to fix it is to get rid of all classes except for starters, legendaries, and ancients. Other monsters will just have no class.
(12-09-2011 09:41 AM)Pein Wrote:  i totally agree with this because most users tend to use only zenith and above until recently emissaries werent even picked so i say abandon it except for starters zeniths legends and ancients

I agree with what you are saying. But also consider the stigmatism against the very name of the classes. If the first thing that a user looks at is the class, then that's a problem because it's creating an undesirable class of monsters. You can keep the same catch rates and change the stats. The thing that is truly going to make a difference if you remove the classification system. We will know which monsters are rare based on their catch rate.
You have my full support with that post. Also, I think stigmatism is a funny word XD Also, it's not even a word O:

Now to Lamb and those that play Pokemon Online..

Do you guys stick to the same pokem every battle or do you switch up with different types of teams? Every pokemon have an ability that you would sooner or later need, right?


That's basically the same thing here once we get all our stuff corrected.
12-10-2011 05:32 AM
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Snoozn Offline
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Post: #39
RE: Class System Suggestion - AriaSings
I confess, I didn't actually read every statement and I apologize. So if this was said already don't kill me.

First off, we are only really hearing the PvP side of things. Cool its established, These lower ranked monsters are not competitive for PvP play. This isn't a terrible thing, but it is a problem.

The main problem from original post is that these monsters are not being trained because of their class. This is again true.

Lets get to the meat and potatoes and thing of this solution from other angles. What are most of us players really concerned about overall?

Is it PvP? Well to an extent yes, but we all have monsters that are level 100 we don't use in PvP. So why do we have these monsters that are lvl 100 and aren't that good in PvP? It's because they look cool or we are drawn to them for some reason and like them. Miro's help higher average xp counts.

Okay, so if it isn't 100% a PvP thing what could it be? You did mention something about average XP. I did, didn't I. It is because average xp is counted in the ranking for each player. If you have high xp monsters then the average is going to be high and if you have low xp monsters it brings it down.

See where I am going.

A way to bring reg. and superior monsters into the fold of being trained could all lay within this xp amount. I thought about it a bit and while looking at monsters I realized something. Depending on the class of monster, the monster dex will say how fast they xp. I thought that was amazing, oh look fast xp gainer. Awesome. The truth actually is, it doesn't gain xp faster than other monsters, it just has a lower total xp amount needed for 100.

We can actually keep all the class names and just change the xp part of the equation. Make them all the same overall xp amount as say, emissary. We would still have reg. superior and emissary. Just put an xp gainer buff on the lower classes to balance out the reason why they have a low total xp requirement.

Badda bing, badda boom. Now collectors in the game that worry about rank have a reason to collect and train them without hurting their rank.

I like the pvp viable options as well.
12-11-2011 03:57 PM
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Post: #40
RE: Class System Suggestion - AriaSings
*havent got the time to read all....*

But my view is, that even I do the only 7m+ monsters even though i love bakuchan and radiaution.
So some of the classes should be abolished.
But with the zeniths, people have chosen them as their rewards due to their stats (me) and lowering them would be a massive waste...

We could obviously do nothing about it. The same thing applies in pokemon. Lots of people use Pseudo's and Legendaries.
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12-12-2011 12:09 AM
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Guider456 Away
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Post: #41
RE: Class System Suggestion - AriaSings
yes but every pokemon is used in pokemon games because of the stats.
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12-12-2011 01:10 AM
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ItsHowIRoll Offline
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RE: Class System Suggestion - AriaSings
(12-12-2011 01:10 AM)Guider456 Wrote:  yes but every pokemon is used in pokemon games because of the stats.
And the strong monsters are used because of their strong stats..... Having no weak monsters will make the game overpowered and in the long run... Boring.
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12-12-2011 01:13 AM
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SkyRock Offline
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Post: #43
RE: Class System Suggestion - AriaSings
I'd want Starters - Regular (All 6m exp) - Zenith (7m) - Legendary (8m Miroushon decreased to 9m) - Ancient (10m)
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12-12-2011 01:51 AM
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Post: #44
RE: Class System Suggestion - AriaSings
(12-12-2011 01:51 AM)Rain127 Wrote:  I'd want Starters - Regular (All 6m exp) - Zenith (7m) - Legendary (8m Miroushon decreased to 9m) - Ancient (10m)
Errr o.o

Why not Starter(7m) - Emissary(7m) - Zenith(8m) - Legendary(9m) - Ancient(11m) ;D

Emissary is better than Regular <_< Sounds better.

But I like how Aria said that the rarity of the monster should be based on their catch rates.
12-12-2011 02:01 AM
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ItsHowIRoll Offline
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Post: #45
RE: Class System Suggestion - AriaSings
I'd just keep as it is. Because people are still going to only use the stronger monsters. Still boost rank with miro's. and still spam catch/kill legends to train.
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12-12-2011 02:01 AM
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SparrowHawk Offline
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Post: #46
RE: Class System Suggestion - AriaSings
(12-12-2011 02:01 AM)ItsHowIRoll Wrote:  I'd just keep as it is. Because people are still going to only use the stronger monsters. Still boost rank with miro's. and still spam catch/kill legends to train.
Then they aren't a good player only sticking to so few ;D They aren't pro and don't deserve the rank they get. WAHAHA

I only catch legends/zeniths (whenever they pop up) if I have the boxes and for money ;D I don't care about them.

I want a Duoris. Looks so epic
12-12-2011 02:04 AM
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Guider456 Away
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Post: #47
RE: Class System Suggestion - AriaSings
i would train my full uv generaffe if it was 7 mill >_>
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12-12-2011 02:06 AM
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AriaSings Offline
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Post: #48
RE: Class System Suggestion - AriaSings
Guys, i know it would be a waste for the zenith trainers. But the only real way to fix the problem is to eradicate the zenith class and collapse it. Otherwise, the problem will still exist because there will be too many strong classes. Just think--there will be starter, zenith, legendary, and ancient vs.....emissary. That's a big power imbalance.


The way it needs to be is:
starter -- emissary -- legendary --ancient

Otherwise, people will still only care about the zeniths and legendaries...and thus the true problem in the game will not change. It's ok for people to really really want legendaries---that's the point of legendaries. But the creation of the pseudo-legendary class "zenith" has made it possible to completely ignore the other monsters in the game. In order to stop people from ignoring the other monsters, you have to take away the "zenith" class and make all zenith monsters emissary.
12-12-2011 03:47 AM
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Lamb Offline
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Post: #49
RE: Class System Suggestion - AriaSings
(12-10-2011 05:32 AM)Deidara Wrote:  You have my full support with that post. Also, I think stigmatism is a funny word XD Also, it's not even a word O:

Now to Lamb and those that play Pokemon Online..

Do you guys stick to the same pokem every battle or do you switch up with different types of teams? Every pokemon have an ability that you would sooner or later need, right?


That's basically the same thing here once we get all our stuff corrected.

I usually play BW OU, so I use the Pokemon that are viable in that metagame. Sometimes I make slight changes to make my team better. However, if I wanted to, for example, use Spiritomb for whatever reason, then I would use in in the BW UU tier, not the BW OU tier. The reason for that is because Spiritomb is not very viable in the BW OU metagame. Thus, if I wanted to use it, I would switch to the BW UU tier, create a BW UU team with Spiritomb, and then battle with it.

(12-12-2011 01:10 AM)Guider456 Wrote:  yes but every pokemon is used in pokemon games because of the stats.

Er, not every Pokemon. I don't even bother to catch certain garbage Pokemon because they are weak and not very good in-game as well as competitively. One example is Luvdisc. Why on Earth would you use Luvdisc on your in-game team or your competitive team when there are so many better Pokemon that can do its job so much better? Like, instead of getting a Luvdisc, you could get a Staryu and then evolve it into a Starmie so you can get a powerful Water-type Pokemon that will help you in-game and in competitive play.

Anyway, Snoozn touched on an interesting point. However, if this suggestion is purely for the benefit of PvP battles then I think that Snoozn's comments can be ignored for now. If not, then, let's go with what he said.
12-12-2011 04:17 AM
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Raith Offline
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Post: #50
RE: Class System Suggestion - AriaSings
(12-12-2011 01:13 AM)ItsHowIRoll Wrote:  
(12-12-2011 01:10 AM)Guider456 Wrote:  yes but every pokemon is used in pokemon games because of the stats.
And the strong monsters are used because of their strong stats..... Having no weak monsters will make the game overpowered and in the long run... Boring.

Sorry, but you're completely missing the point. I'm not saying make every Mon OP, I'm saying make every Mon useful in some way. I want Mons to have some weaknesses. You're inferring that Mons can't have good stats weighed down by a couple bad/mediocre stats without being ZOMG SO OP BRO. Stats are just one way to bridge the gap between tiers; we can also use abilities or movepools. If you want to keep some useless Monsters around, you want an unbalanced game. My goal in my post contributions is to prevent this game from playing like a kindergartner's daydream about Monsters. Balance and thought is important or Monsters will go unused.

Unused Monsters means wasted time.

Do you want to waste Sierra's time, having her draw Mons that won't be conventionally used by players? What about Furkan, who codes the Mons into the game so players can catch and train them?

My point is, it's important to fix the PvP/PvE because that's ALL this game is about right now. What do you do with caught Monsters that you can't do IRL by collecting beetles or something? Oh, right... you battle them! Don't underestimate the importance of PvP in this game; PvP is what sells it.
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12-12-2011 04:25 AM
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Guider456 Away
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Post: #51
RE: Class System Suggestion - AriaSings
Quote:Er, not every Pokemon. I don't even bother to catch certain garbage Pokemon because they are weak and not very good in-game as well as competitively. One example is Luvdisc. Why on Earth would you use Luvdisc on your in-game team or your competitive team when there are so many better Pokemon that can do its job so much better? Like, instead of getting a Luvdisc, you could get a Staryu and then evolve it into a Starmie so you can get a powerful Water-type Pokemon that will help you in-game and in competitive play.

Anyway, Snoozn touched on an interesting point. However, if this suggestion is purely for the benefit of PvP battles then I think that Snoozn's comments can be ignored for now. If not, then, let's go with what he said.
i still see some people use weak pokemon like luvdisc on teams and create a strong team around it and still do good. i mean the 1s with "weak" stats would be considered nu most likely so i'm pretty sure theyd be found in the nu tier.

i hate this quoting thing
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12-12-2011 04:33 AM
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Post: #52
RE: Class System Suggestion - AriaSings
I think the point being is that to correct the stat problem allows people to choose from more monsters to battle with rather than the same old monsters that everyone will use in pvp. The stat correction is just giving other monsters that would never be considered for pvp a chance to have some usefulness in pvp scenarios. So again for the sake of being able to use more than just emissary classes or above to pvp battle, I would like to use say some superiors and still have a chance to win. That is why the stat changes are needed.
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12-12-2011 05:36 AM
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Post: #53
RE: Class System Suggestion - AriaSings
(12-12-2011 04:25 AM)Raith Wrote:  
(12-12-2011 01:13 AM)ItsHowIRoll Wrote:  
(12-12-2011 01:10 AM)Guider456 Wrote:  yes but every pokemon is used in pokemon games because of the stats.
And the strong monsters are used because of their strong stats..... Having no weak monsters will make the game overpowered and in the long run... Boring.

Sorry, but you're completely missing the point. I'm not saying make every Mon OP, I'm saying make every Mon useful in some way. I want Mons to have some weaknesses. You're inferring that Mons can't have good stats weighed down by a couple bad/mediocre stats without being ZOMG SO OP BRO. Stats are just one way to bridge the gap between tiers; we can also use abilities or movepools. If you want to keep some useless Monsters around, you want an unbalanced game. My goal in my post contributions is to prevent this game from playing like a kindergartner's daydream about Monsters. Balance and thought is important or Monsters will go unused.

Unused Monsters means wasted time.

Do you want to waste Sierra's time, having her draw Mons that won't be conventionally used by players? What about Furkan, who codes the Mons into the game so players can catch and train them?

My point is, it's important to fix the PvP/PvE because that's ALL this game is about right now. What do you do with caught Monsters that you can't do IRL by collecting beetles or something? Oh, right... you battle them! Don't underestimate the importance of PvP in this game; PvP is what sells it.
I agree that something needs doing with abilities and moves before anything.... before any 'drastic' change
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12-12-2011 09:52 AM
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Post: #54
RE: Class System Suggestion - AriaSings
I agree, and specialy agree with changing some of the abilities of weaker monsters, that way players could choose between high stats of good synergy of abilities. And I know it's of topic but how about evolved monsters keeping or upgrading some of their old abilities?
btw I agree with monster classes, all of them
12-12-2011 10:58 PM
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Post: #55
RE: Class System Suggestion - AriaSings
(12-12-2011 03:47 AM)AriaSings Wrote:  Guys, i know it would be a waste for the zenith trainers. But the only real way to fix the problem is to eradicate the zenith class and collapse it. Otherwise, the problem will still exist because there will be too many strong classes. Just think--there will be starter, zenith, legendary, and ancient vs.....emissary. That's a big power imbalance.


The way it needs to be is:
starter -- emissary -- legendary --ancient

Otherwise, people will still only care about the zeniths and legendaries...and thus the true problem in the game will not change. It's ok for people to really really want legendaries---that's the point of legendaries. But the creation of the pseudo-legendary class "zenith" has made it possible to completely ignore the other monsters in the game. In order to stop people from ignoring the other monsters, you have to take away the "zenith" class and make all zenith monsters emissary.
WHY DO YOU HATE ZENITH!? I love zenith for having both Roivile and Bavante, and Yetee. I still want my suggestion: Starter - Emissary - Zenith - Legendary - Ancient - Chuck Norris
I don't wanna see Yetee as a small-time little Emissary.NEVER
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12-12-2011 11:08 PM
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orboknown Away
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Post: #56
RE: Class System Suggestion - AriaSings
(12-11-2011 03:57 PM)Snoozn Wrote:  I confess, I didn't actually read every statement and I apologize. So if this was said already don't kill me.

First off, we are only really hearing the PvP side of things. Cool its established, These lower ranked monsters are not competitive for PvP play. This isn't a terrible thing, but it is a problem.

The main problem from original post is that these monsters are not being trained because of their class. This is again true.

Lets get to the meat and potatoes and thing of this solution from other angles. What are most of us players really concerned about overall?

Is it PvP? Well to an extent yes, but we all have monsters that are level 100 we don't use in PvP. So why do we have these monsters that are lvl 100 and aren't that good in PvP? It's because they look cool or we are drawn to them for some reason and like them. Miro's help higher average xp counts.

Okay, so if it isn't 100% a PvP thing what could it be? You did mention something about average XP. I did, didn't I. It is because average xp is counted in the ranking for each player. If you have high xp monsters then the average is going to be high and if you have low xp monsters it brings it down.

See where I am going.

A way to bring reg. and superior monsters into the fold of being trained could all lay within this xp amount. I thought about it a bit and while looking at monsters I realized something. Depending on the class of monster, the monster dex will say how fast they xp. I thought that was amazing, oh look fast xp gainer. Awesome. The truth actually is, it doesn't gain xp faster than other monsters, it just has a lower total xp amount needed for 100.

We can actually keep all the class names and just change the xp part of the equation. Make them all the same overall xp amount as say, emissary. We would still have reg. superior and emissary. Just put an xp gainer buff on the lower classes to balance out the reason why they have a low total xp requirement.

Badda bing, badda boom. Now collectors in the game that worry about rank have a reason to collect and train them without hurting their rank.

I like the pvp viable options as well.
This^

(12-12-2011 04:25 AM)Raith Wrote:  
(12-12-2011 01:13 AM)ItsHowIRoll Wrote:  
(12-12-2011 01:10 AM)Guider456 Wrote:  yes but every pokemon is used in pokemon games because of the stats.
And the strong monsters are used because of their strong stats..... Having no weak monsters will make the game overpowered and in the long run... Boring.

Sorry, but you're completely missing the point. I'm not saying make every Mon OP, I'm saying make every Mon useful in some way. I want Mons to have some weaknesses. You're inferring that Mons can't have good stats weighed down by a couple bad/mediocre stats without being ZOMG SO OP BRO. Stats are just one way to bridge the gap between tiers; we can also use abilities or movepools. If you want to keep some useless Monsters around, you want an unbalanced game. My goal in my post contributions is to prevent this game from playing like a kindergartner's daydream about Monsters. Balance and thought is important or Monsters will go unused.

Unused Monsters means wasted time.

Do you want to waste Sierra's time, having her draw Mons that won't be conventionally used by players? What about Furkan, who codes the Mons into the game so players can catch and train them?

My point is, it's important to fix the PvP/PvE because that's ALL this game is about right now. What do you do with caught Monsters that you can't do IRL by collecting beetles or something? Oh, right... you battle them! Don't underestimate the importance of PvP in this game; PvP is what sells it.
and this^
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If you hear the Whisper Men then turn away your ears
Do not hear the Whisper Men whatever else you do
For once you've heard the Whisper Men they'll stop. And look at you.
12-13-2011 12:16 AM
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AriaSings Offline
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Post: #57
RE: Class System Suggestion - AriaSings
(12-12-2011 11:08 PM)Rain127 Wrote:  WHY DO YOU HATE ZENITH!? I love zenith for having both Roivile and Bavante, and Yetee. I still want my suggestion: Starter - Emissary - Zenith - Legendary - Ancient - Chuck Norris
I don't wanna see Yetee as a small-time little Emissary.NEVER

The problem with zenith is that it creates a pseudo-legendary class but it is not hard enough to catch them. As long as there is still a zenith class, people will still be spamming over the chat and lower-ranked monsters will not be used in battle or in training. That is the fundamental problem and unless you get rid of the zenith class, it won't be fixed.

Your comment "small-time little Emissary" illuminates my point. It is this adverse attitude to the lower classes that we are trying to eradicate.

If all monsters besides starter, legendary, and ancient (and these are only 1% of the monsters) were emissary, there there wouldn't be a "small-time" class. Yetee would still be competitive.

The way it needs to be is:

Starter - Emissary - Legend - Ancient
12-13-2011 01:12 AM
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ItsHowIRoll Offline
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Post: #58
RE: Class System Suggestion - AriaSings
(12-13-2011 01:12 AM)AriaSings Wrote:  
(12-12-2011 11:08 PM)Rain127 Wrote:  WHY DO YOU HATE ZENITH!? I love zenith for having both Roivile and Bavante, and Yetee. I still want my suggestion: Starter - Emissary - Zenith - Legendary - Ancient - Chuck Norris

I don't wanna see Yetee as a small-time little Emissary.NEVER


The problem with zenith is that it creates a pseudo-legendary class but it is not hard enough to catch them. As long as there is still a zenith class, people will still be spamming over the chat and lower-ranked monsters will not be used in battle or in training. That is the fundamental problem and unless you get rid of the zenith class, it won't be fixed.



Your comment "small-time little Emissary" illuminates my point. It is this adverse attitude to the lower classes that we are trying to eradicate.



If all monsters besides starter, legendary, and ancient (and these are only 1% of the monsters) were emissary, there there wouldn't be a "small-time" class. Yetee would still be competitive.



The way it needs to be is:



Starter - Emissary - Legend - Ancient
Eradicating zeniths will make a larger problem than a benefit.. The only way that this can be resolved is by merging zeniths into legends..... and get less legends drawn into the game in near future until there's a more equal ratio of normal:legends
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12-13-2011 02:03 AM
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CeFurkan Offline
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Post: #59
RE: Class System Suggestion - AriaSings
Classes are determined by total stat and does not have any secondary effect.
So removing them does not mean anything. And you still have to catch them because different monster count has effect on top trainers.
(This post was last modified: 12-13-2011 02:11 AM by CeFurkan.)
12-13-2011 02:10 AM
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Pein Offline
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Post: #60
RE: Class System Suggestion - AriaSings
^ so is spam catching legends and zeniths
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12-13-2011 02:13 AM
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