Post Reply  Subscribed Users 0
 
Thread Rating:
  • 0 Votes - 0 Average
  • 1
  • 2
  • 3
  • 4
  • 5
Element Balancing
Azalraku Offline
Monster Newbie

Posts: 9
Thanks Given: 0
Thanks Received: 0 in 0 posts
Joined: Mar 2012
Post: #1
Element Balancing
Just want to say, as this is my first thread, I love the game! You folks have really put something together that, in time, could rival or possibly even surpass its predecessor! Now before I begin, it's important to state here that I'm new to the game. My highest level is 18. Actually, I've got about 15 Po... monsters hovering between 14 and 18. Also take into consideration that I've been playing Pokemon for the last decade. I've gone to competitions, and even built local tournament groups for it. I'm... a fan. So, this all might make for a pretty large bias.

Ok! So after several hours of blind trial-and-error fighting and leveling up, I've noticed a few discrepancies. Things which separate this game greatly from a certain "P" game. Sadly, these are not good things. Really, I can break all my complaints down into two issues. Display, and Algorithm.

Display Issues:
- I notice that the element type of each monster isn't listed in their details while in-game. I have to go to the pokedex every time I wish to learn a monster's element, but I do not require this for their current moves or their stat spread? seems a little backwards. I wouldn't complain about an issue like that, were all the monsters to resemble their elemental backgrounds enough for a new player to easily discern the type, but I don't want to hinder the artists you've hired on. I love their work, and I've got no problems having to guess at a monster's element from the picture alone.
- I would also prefer a paneling effect with the game window. movement is staggered, frame by frame, when it could be fluid up to a point, where it would switch to a new panel of the map. it already does this a small bit, but it would be nice to have it be a locked thing. I don't need the camera struggling to keep my character in the center square.
- I would like to see a more centralized display for combat effects. The information is all there, but it's not streamlined. My eyes don't gravitate to the information as effects occur. Since there's no animation during a battle sequence, I find myself rapid-firing the mouse clicks to complete a battle, not realizing that I've been poisoned! My deaths come in the form of fine-print under the attack section. Again, this isn't a severe issue, but it really helps keep gaming momentum up when everything is laid-out in a way that quick to notice and easy to read.

Algorithm (Gameplay) Issues:
- The different types of monsters really make your gaming experience. There's no way you're going to go through the game with only a handful of monsters and come out successful. Were I to relate this to pokemon, I could in theory, use the same 6 pokemon to progress from beginning to end with only a few exceptions for HM use. Now, I don't really want to do that, but I know that the option is available. Here, that option is nonexistent. Element types have such a rock-paper-scissors mechanic, that there's no way a lv.10 water type could defeat a lv.5 grass type, should that grass type have a grass-based attack. The damage ratio is so skewed to elemental superiority, that I am forced to only fight enemies who are weak to my monsters. an element-neutral battle can go in my favor, but i find that this is more of a coin toss than anything else. but perhaps this is for a number of reasons. Hell, perhaps this kind of gameplay is intentional! After all, it is alleviated with the fact that capturing a monster is not only easy, (I've thus far, had a 97% catch rate) but inexpensive. I could start the game off and after 5 wins, purchace 10 more monster cubes.
- the critical hits seem a little outrageous. Well, not a little. I've 1hko-ed higher level enemies, and I've been 1hko-ed by lower level enemies. i.e.: my Lv.7 Osipue critted a lv.14 Flickser for over 80 points of damage. I have yet to see any monster that wouldn't kill instantly. Perhaps having a crit rate at 4% is the reason for this, but it still feels disorienting and undesired as a player. An instant kill is tough to look at in a turn-based rpg like this, especially when I've done no special training or acquired any item that would make it seem justified. It's a jarring feeling, really. This is the same as the element issue. Dealing too much or too little damage per turn can make the battling feel lopsided, and unwieldy to your players. A balance here must be struck!
- Stat Deviancy: While I really like the idea of seeing the same monster several times over, each with largly different stats, I fear that this variability only encourages an offset to the balance of combat. I know that each monster has a certain limit placed on their stats, but at my current level, it is difficult to see evidence of this. I am not very familiar with the system from a metagame standpoint, so there's still a lot I'll need to learn about how and why each individual monster of the same type has such large stat differences.

I want to reference Pokemon here. Their combat algorithms, while lengthy and difficult to calculate for, works. It works REALLY well. It's one of the main reasons the franchise hasn't changed very much since it started, over a decade ago. It might be a tortuous task, but building a system of calculations to allow for a more balanced feel WILL be worth it.

Now, before I start getting hate-mail from everyone on here for bashing the system, know that I recognize where I stand in the community here. I'm well-aware that the gameplay can drastically change, and possibly even balance itself out, as I reach a higher level (though I doubt it). I know that I'm a nobody who just picked up the game, and it's out-of-line for me to be acting like I know what's best for a game I've only out 8-10 hours into, but I don't suggest any of this because I like feeling important or self-righteous. I want to see this game succeed. I've kept my eyes open for an online Pokemon title. I mean, seriously. This type of game lends itself to the MMO arena. I'm not going to quit playing the game. I'm going to stay online for as long as it remains fun. Keep up the good work fellas! I look forward to seeing your finished work, and until then, I'll continue to advertise and support the Monster MMO!
(This post was last modified: 04-03-2012 06:52 AM by orboknown.)
03-27-2012 03:58 PM
Find all posts by this user Add Thank You Quote this message in a reply
Dandragoon Offline
Monster Owner
**


Posts: 43
Thanks Given: 0
Thanks Received: 1 in 1 posts
Joined: Dec 2011
Post: #2
RE: Element Ballancing
I agree with quite a couple of things you stated there, mostly on the technical part.
Yet i have to say, it takes a while to see how everything is connected and works.
You didn't mention 2 of the most important parts of the game, which will explain some of the variability you have encountered:

Natures! They greatly influence the base stats of a monster, up to a 60% increase or decrease. and there are 100 different natures that all have different stats.
Then, there are UVs - the unique values that boost base stats - that come in a number between 1 and 50.
Considering these two things, you might face a level 10 monster of the same type with either a attack stat of 5, or maybe 50+

I won't get into more things you mentioned there as we are waiting for a big update towards summer that will probably fix a few of those problems.

Anways, i am glad to see a newer player taking the time to point out the problems he sees in the game, your effort shows you are really interested.
Might see you in chat or ingame, good luck with your further journey through the world of monsters Smile
[Image: un76e.jpg]
03-27-2012 05:48 PM
Find all posts by this user Add Thank You Quote this message in a reply
Azalraku Offline
Monster Newbie

Posts: 9
Thanks Given: 0
Thanks Received: 0 in 0 posts
Joined: Mar 2012
Post: #3
RE: Element Ballancing
(03-27-2012 05:48 PM)Dandragoon Wrote:  Considering these two things, you might face a level 10 monster of the same type with either a attack stat of 5, or maybe 50+
Well that definitely explains that. I really like the idea of monsters being slightly statistically different, but a 60% difference? That's not a talented monster, that's a whole other species! As a player, I need to be able to form trends based on a monster's performance, so I can form strategies, and not simply get hit out of left-field with a same-level monster who's got potentially 50 more points of health, or attack power. What if I were playing chess, and all of a sudden, my opponent's bishops were moving like rooks? I wouldn't be able to supply a strategic contingency for that.
03-28-2012 02:58 AM
Find all posts by this user Add Thank You Quote this message in a reply
PcKaveman Offline
Monster Fighter
***


Posts: 138
Thanks Given: 2
Thanks Received: 4 in 3 posts
Joined: Nov 2011
Post: #4
RE: Element Ballancing
Your Display idea:

I agree the game does need a more fluid traveling motion... not much more to say there

Algorithms:
- battling does need to be revamped in my opinion, reading the text can be troublesome, especially in pvp. In pvp you have to contantly refresh your page if you click a move too early and refreshing re-sets the writing below making you unaware if your move has missed or how much damage you have done... Battling should be a huge priority

- i disagree with the typing being a "rock, paper, scissors" type of battle. In the end, monsters will have different types of attacks thus having move coverage. Combine that with natures and uvs and I know monsters at a disadvantage being able to take out monsters that in theory should have had an edge.

Conclusion:
I think you have some great ideas, and it is good to have someone give their first impressions of the game.

I personally don't think natures and uvs should change it adds an interesting mix to the game. You may find you disagree or agree with that as you progress in the game.

The last thing I think to keep in mind is that this isn't pokemon. The pokemon algorithms work for pokemon, but that won't necessarily mean that the pokemon algorithm will work for monstermmorpg. That would be a cookie cutter assumption. It may work, it may not. I don't know, and on the other hand I'm not a programmer therefore I don't know how much work it would take either. But the last thing to take into consideration is that poke craft was shut down for legal issues. I again don't know but I somewhat assume that pokemon have patented their algorithm as well. Mind you that is just an assumption and one that probably should be taken for legal issues.

Welcome to the game, hope to see you on chat Smile
"For what is a man, what has he got. If not himself, then he has naught" - Frank Sinatra
[Image: 2ppzlnp.jpg]
03-28-2012 04:05 AM
Find all posts by this user Add Thank You Quote this message in a reply
Azalraku Offline
Monster Newbie

Posts: 9
Thanks Given: 0
Thanks Received: 0 in 0 posts
Joined: Mar 2012
Post: #5
RE: Element Ballancing
(03-28-2012 04:05 AM)PcKaveman Wrote:  keep in mind is that this isn't pokemon. The pokemon algorithms work for pokemon, but that won't necessarily mean that the pokemon algorithm will work for monstermmorpg.
Nuff Said, really. I know my opinions on the matter are skewed in that direction. I'm keeping an open mind.
... and I still think the element differences feel hyperbolic Big Grin
03-29-2012 04:53 PM
Find all posts by this user Add Thank You Quote this message in a reply
Pein Offline
Monster Master
*****

Posts: 1,654
Thanks Given: 0
Thanks Received: 1 in 1 posts
Joined: May 2011
Post: #6
RE: Element Ballancing
with stats i can tell you that they are being worked on, everything else i pretty much agree
[Image: ZekromSig.png]

Credits to SparrowHawk
03-30-2012 09:15 AM
Find all posts by this user Add Thank You Quote this message in a reply
orboknown Away
Super Moderator
******
Super Moderators

Posts: 4,156
Thanks Given: 132
Thanks Received: 98 in 75 posts
Joined: May 2011
Post: #7
RE: Element Balancing
can't believe no one picked up on that title typo.
basically am ok with everything in here.
Quote: Do you hear the Whisper Men The Whisper Men are near
If you hear the Whisper Men then turn away your ears
Do not hear the Whisper Men whatever else you do
For once you've heard the Whisper Men they'll stop. And look at you.
04-03-2012 06:53 AM
Find all posts by this user Add Thank You Quote this message in a reply
Post Reply  Subscribed Users 0


Forum Jump:


User(s) browsing this thread: 1 Guest(s)