[Queen Of The Sun Hat]

Now, I don't pvp battle often. I frequently lose when I do, but I never mind, because it is fun. However, I feel that by fixing this problem, a new, or rather old, one will rear its ugly head, one that is MUCH worse.

Accuracy and evasion become the biggest strategy. That's not to say you won't still use status effects or walls or glass cannons, but the battling would get dull because all that would matter is lowering accuracy. In pokemon, this wasn't a problem because there were NO moves that lowered accuracy below 1 stage per use of the move.

Here, however, it is. There are many moves that bring you instantly up or down five stages. I am CERTAIN one for accuracy lowering or evasion heightening exists. Even if it doesn't, there are still moves that I have SEEN in use that heighten these stats ridiculously.

I just don't want this fun system becoming boring with accuracy and evasion being the biggest factors, is all. I'm partly for this idea, but I really think it shoudl just be improved on, not completely solved. Making it a little harder to hit others, but not below ten percent.

[Knost]

Now, I don't pvp battle often. I frequently lose when I do, but I never mind, because it is fun. However, I feel that by fixing this problem, a new, or rather old, one will rear its ugly head, one that is MUCH worse.

Accuracy and evasion become the biggest strategy. That's not to say you won't still use status effects or walls or glass cannons, but the battling would get dull because all that would matter is lowering accuracy. In pokemon, this wasn't a problem because there were NO moves that lowered accuracy below 1 stage per use of the move.

Here, however, it is. There are many moves that bring you instantly up or down five stages. I am CERTAIN one for accuracy lowering or evasion heightening exists. Even if it doesn't, there are still moves that I have SEEN in use that heighten these stats ridiculously.

I just don't want this fun system becoming boring with accuracy and evasion being the biggest factors, is all. I'm partly for this idea, but I really think it shoudl just be improved on, not completely solved. Making it a little harder to hit others, but not below ten percent.

There aren't any moves in the current move pool that target evasion and/or accuracy to decrease them 5 stages. 

The point of this is to make accuracy and evasion mean something so they can add too the element of strategy in pvp rather than make it unreliable, frustrating and annoying. The way to balance out accuracy isn't by decreasing it's max percentages (which is what was done and failed), but instead you accomplish balance with moves/abilities that counter stat changes. Thus adding strategy.

Right now you almost have to battle without switching which is no better than battling NPC's, which can be boring and tedious.

Since it seems like you're not sure of your position which is probably due to the fact that you "don't pvp battle often." I won't add you for now. 

Thanks for the comment.

[Snorlax47]

Now, I don't pvp battle often. I frequently lose when I do, but I never mind, because it is fun. However, I feel that by fixing this problem, a new, or rather old, one will rear its ugly head, one that is MUCH worse.

Accuracy and evasion become the biggest strategy. That's not to say you won't still use status effects or walls or glass cannons, but the battling would get dull because all that would matter is lowering accuracy. In pokemon, this wasn't a problem because there were NO moves that lowered accuracy below 1 stage per use of the move.

Here, however, it is. There are many moves that bring you instantly up or down five stages. I am CERTAIN one for accuracy lowering or evasion heightening exists. Even if it doesn't, there are still moves that I have SEEN in use that heighten these stats ridiculously.

I just don't want this fun system becoming boring with accuracy and evasion being the biggest factors, is all. I'm partly for this idea, but I really think it shoudl just be improved on, not completely solved. Making it a little harder to hit others, but not below ten percent.

You have a good point,in version one i would just surrender when i  saw someone do evasion/accuracy strategy.

[Knost]

Now, I don't pvp battle often. I frequently lose when I do, but I never mind, because it is fun. However, I feel that by fixing this problem, a new, or rather old, one will rear its ugly head, one that is MUCH worse.

Accuracy and evasion become the biggest strategy. That's not to say you won't still use status effects or walls or glass cannons, but the battling would get dull because all that would matter is lowering accuracy. In pokemon, this wasn't a problem because there were NO moves that lowered accuracy below 1 stage per use of the move.

Here, however, it is. There are many moves that bring you instantly up or down five stages. I am CERTAIN one for accuracy lowering or evasion heightening exists. Even if it doesn't, there are still moves that I have SEEN in use that heighten these stats ridiculously.

I just don't want this fun system becoming boring with accuracy and evasion being the biggest factors, is all. I'm partly for this idea, but I really think it shoudl just be improved on, not completely solved. Making it a little harder to hit others, but not below ten percent.

You have a good point,in version one i would just surrender when i  saw someone do evasion/accuracy strategy.

That's probably because you didn't have the sufficient monsters/strategy to counter it lol

Why do you think the Wall Gampha was made?

[Snorlax47]

wasnt bcuz of that,its just the seeing everyone use exact same strategy.It gets old.


How about we just get rid of evasion and accuracy move completely.

[XxVietBoixX]

........

[Knost]

wasnt bcuz of that,its just the seeing everyone use exact same strategy.It gets old.


How about we just get rid of evasion and accuracy move completely.

LOL that's not really an option...at all. 

You would ruin 90% of the PVP monsters in the game.

[Snorlax47]

lol I know not a popular opinion,but hey ,we could find new pvp monster.This is a new form to game why not try to find new pvp mons.

[Knost]

lol I know not a popular opinion,but hey ,we could find new pvp monster.This is a new form to game why not try to find new pvp mons.

Not when you're spending IRL money on them lol

I'm done discusing this point now lol

Cef would never do that to the donators or the Vets that have put in a lot of time to this game.

[XxVietBoixX]

actually when donators spend money like i did to fix almost all my monsters its impossible to for me to find new ones unless he refunds me completely to fix my monsters up again

[Beetall]

Strongly disagree with the idea, (hi btw, I haven't been on much recently xD) and I will list my reasoning now-

Reason #1 - As it is, players who spam accu-decreasing are ridiculously annoying to pvp.
-As knost said in the original post, "We have a lot more monsters with stat resetting moves, we have more acc increasing/evasion decreasing moves" --- While I will not deny this, the number of accu-increasing moves in the game pales in comparison to the number of monsters with absurd moves like Tickle or Glow. As for stat-resetting moves, what typically happens when I use those moves against tickle spammers is that as soon as I reset, (reason 3 will explain further) they then proceed to spam the hell out of Tickle for the next 5 minutes until they run out of MP.  Assuming your monster has no stat-resets or accu-increasing moves, these spammers will take this spam to a whole new level, doing it to every monster you own until you are virtually guaranteed to never-again hit with the accu-decreased monster. (25% accuracy on moves that will typically have 60-70 accu if good)


Reason #2 - To me, the most practical response to players lowering accuracy is to simply use a wall with 1000 accu status moves and/or radiation to take them down. The problem? All the serious pvp players will, almost without exception, always have monsters with perfect body/expert regen + orb.  Perfect body completely nullifies any possibilities of stopping accu-reduction, and radiation will be worthless as well if the accu-lowering monster has an orb, regen, or any heal skill.


Reason #3 - Stat resets don't counter reduction. Let's imagine you have a Phylecter against a monason in pvp.  Mona knows tickle, phylecter knows panacea. Mona uses tickle, accu is now -2. Assuming you don't have a status phylecter, (or the mona has perfect body) what will your response be?  Naturally, blindly swinging around isn't going to get you anywhere. You use panacea to reset stats to hit the mona... Mona then uses tickle again. You use panacea to make hitting the mona possible (again). Assuming you're up against a patient pvp-er, this is going to take a while, and personally, I find repeating the same move for more than 5 turns in a row while making absolutely no progress whatsoever a complete waste of time.


Reason #4 - Only high rarity monsters have any good accu increasing moves. Look at Fendark and Aturion... +3 accu moves that are extremely useful. How many sub-ancient monsters have I seen with similar moves? None. Similarly, I only know of glow on ancients as well. (accu -2, evasion +1) The point being, only players that have ridiculous ancients already, *cough* knost *cough* will benefit in any way from an increase in accu-reduction/increase/evasion increase/reduction.

[Snorlax47]

Hmm,im convinced,for the most part.From what you said in chat. Wouldnt hurt.

Just wana see cefurkans reply.

[orboknown]

So then, we've decided that this needs to be fixed. The real problem now is, How are we gonna fix it?
Potential roads we can go down:

1: readjustment of the percentage ratios. This would involve changing the percent to which moves could be buffed and/or lowered. This would also mean changing the mathematical formulas used to calculate the monsters temporary stat changes. From what I've read it seems like the moves accuracy isn't being affected at all, and there's an important difference between calculating the decrease from the original percentage (twenty percent of a hundred) as opposed to a percentage of the new stat value ( twenty of the ninty percent)the second is less bastardly on percentages since it takes a smaller percentage then the former. However, this would mean revising most of the whole pvp system and a lot of the moves.

2: add more moves to the system to counteract the current moves. This is less I.tensive then above and doeant quite deal with the problem but just puts patchwork fixes over them. It is quicker though, and we can use it as a transitionary thing if necessary. We get a user inspired movepool put together of what needs to be fixed, and then construct a new moves set to help patch what doesn't work now. Get a commitee set up so as to filter things out and be able to make executive decisions without massive indecision from an influx of opinions.

3: dump the system Nd start from scratch. Yea no.

[Queen Of The Sun Hat]

Strongly disagree with the idea, (hi btw, I haven't been on much recently xD) and I will list my reasoning now-

Reason #1 - As it is, players who spam accu-decreasing are ridiculously annoying to pvp.
-As knost said in the original post, "We have a lot more monsters with stat resetting moves, we have more acc increasing/evasion decreasing moves" --- While I will not deny this, the number of accu-increasing moves in the game pales in comparison to the number of monsters with absurd moves like Tickle or Glow. As for stat-resetting moves, what typically happens when I use those moves against tickle spammers is that as soon as I reset, (reason 3 will explain further) they then proceed to spam the hell out of Tickle for the next 5 minutes until they run out of MP.  Assuming your monster has no stat-resets or accu-increasing moves, these spammers will take this spam to a whole new level, doing it to every monster you own until you are virtually guaranteed to never-again hit with the accu-decreased monster. (25% accuracy on moves that will typically have 60-70 accu if good)


Reason #2 - To me, the most practical response to players lowering accuracy is to simply use a wall with 1000 accu status moves and/or radiation to take them down. The problem? All the serious pvp players will, almost without exception, always have monsters with perfect body/expert regen + orb.  Perfect body completely nullifies any possibilities of stopping accu-reduction, and radiation will be worthless as well if the accu-lowering monster has an orb, regen, or any heal skill.


Reason #3 - Stat resets don't counter reduction. Let's imagine you have a Phylecter against a monason in pvp.  Mona knows tickle, phylecter knows panacea. Mona uses tickle, accu is now -2. Assuming you don't have a status phylecter, (or the mona has perfect body) what will your response be?  Naturally, blindly swinging around isn't going to get you anywhere. You use panacea to reset stats to hit the mona... Mona then uses tickle again. You use panacea to make hitting the mona possible (again). Assuming you're up against a patient pvp-er, this is going to take a while, and personally, I find repeating the same move for more than 5 turns in a row while making absolutely no progress whatsoever a complete waste of time.


Reason #4 - Only high rarity monsters have any good accu increasing moves. Look at Fendark and Aturion... +3 accu moves that are extremely useful. How many sub-ancient monsters have I seen with similar moves? None. Similarly, I only know of glow on ancients as well. (accu -2, evasion +1) The point being, only players that have ridiculous ancients already, *cough* knost *cough* will benefit in any way from an increase in accu-reduction/increase/evasion increase/reduction.

I knew it! There ARE moves that give ridiculous amounts of evasion/ accuracy! In fact, this makes it even WORSE! Now all you'll see in PVP are ancient ones. Look, I understand ancients are popular, but don't people want to be able to have variety? Use more than just the same monster in pvp? I'm completely against this now. It kills creativity and my old points still stand.

[Knost]

Strongly disagree with the idea, (hi btw, I haven't been on much recently xD) and I will list my reasoning now-

Reason #1 - As it is, players who spam accu-decreasing are ridiculously annoying to pvp.
-As knost said in the original post, "We have a lot more monsters with stat resetting moves, we have more acc increasing/evasion decreasing moves" --- While I will not deny this, the number of accu-increasing moves in the game pales in comparison to the number of monsters with absurd moves like Tickle or Glow. As for stat-resetting moves, what typically happens when I use those moves against tickle spammers is that as soon as I reset, (reason 3 will explain further) they then proceed to spam the hell out of Tickle for the next 5 minutes until they run out of MP.  Assuming your monster has no stat-resets or accu-increasing moves, these spammers will take this spam to a whole new level, doing it to every monster you own until you are virtually guaranteed to never-again hit with the accu-decreased monster. (25% accuracy on moves that will typically have 60-70 accu if good)


Reason #2 - To me, the most practical response to players lowering accuracy is to simply use a wall with 1000 accu status moves and/or radiation to take them down. The problem? All the serious pvp players will, almost without exception, always have monsters with perfect body/expert regen + orb.  Perfect body completely nullifies any possibilities of stopping accu-reduction, and radiation will be worthless as well if the accu-lowering monster has an orb, regen, or any heal skill.


Reason #3 - Stat resets don't counter reduction. Let's imagine you have a Phylecter against a monason in pvp.  Mona knows tickle, phylecter knows panacea. Mona uses tickle, accu is now -2. Assuming you don't have a status phylecter, (or the mona has perfect body) what will your response be?  Naturally, blindly swinging around isn't going to get you anywhere. You use panacea to reset stats to hit the mona... Mona then uses tickle again. You use panacea to make hitting the mona possible (again). Assuming you're up against a patient pvp-er, this is going to take a while, and personally, I find repeating the same move for more than 5 turns in a row while making absolutely no progress whatsoever a complete waste of time.


Reason #4 - Only high rarity monsters have any good accu increasing moves. Look at Fendark and Aturion... +3 accu moves that are extremely useful. How many sub-ancient monsters have I seen with similar moves? None. Similarly, I only know of glow on ancients as well. (accu -2, evasion +1) The point being, only players that have ridiculous ancients already, *cough* knost *cough* will benefit in any way from an increase in accu-reduction/increase/evasion increase/reduction.

Reason #1 response. 
Though I agree that spam may occur I don't believe this is reason enough to abolish this idea. Spam happens even now lol Breaking accuracy/evasion percentages hasn't stopped that at all. The only reason you can provide the example you did was because it's happened to you right? lmao Also you should have stat resetter's in your party for monsters that raise their stats anyways. If someone gets your mons acc down to -5 acc then you should have done better in preparing to face that kind of a monster. 

Stat resetting moves are literally the perfect counter for acc decreasing moves. they decrease, you re-set.

Tis the way of top end PVP.

Reason #2 response

This is just a part of the game lol Some people will have monsters that can counter your's. I don't see why this is even a point. 

Reason #3 response

Again this is a part of PVP. My suggestion would be to switch out to a Glass Cannon or sweeper with Max Guard/Max Acc or a stat resetting move and hit it hard. 

Reason #4

Yes, I agree there is a disconnect from emissary tier moves and Ancient Tier moves. This was designed specifically by Cefurkan. 

Ancient's, for the most part, have the advantage in every aspect of the game. This was done by design.

[Cpt. Obvious]

Queen there are moves that may inflict the lowering of the stat by 1-3 stages or random stage increase/decrease. 
But that is not part of the discussion, the discussion is whether or not it is normal that when there is a really low chance to hit someone, being with 200% evasion and 50% accuracy, that it can still easily hit the opposing monster and the effect it has on PVP/fighting NPC's.

There is no abuse of a move and every strong move has a strong countermove.

[Knost]

I knew it! There ARE moves that give ridiculous amounts of evasion/ accuracy! In fact, this makes it even WORSE! Now all you'll see in PVP are ancient ones. Look, I understand ancients are popular, but don't people want to be able to have variety? Use more than just the same monster in pvp? I'm completely against this now. It kills creativity and my old points still stand.

Like I said in my previous post. There is a disconnect between Emissaries and Ancients as far as power is concerned. This was done by design. 

If you want to PVP a monster that has the same strength moves as your Emissary monsters then make sure to battle Emissary monsters.

[orboknown]

Except when they don't captain and queen raises valid points. Those moves need somethi.g to counter them outside of abilities and items.
Edit: you guys should really learb how to format quote tags to remove stuff you arent responding to and save us a lot of space per page.

[Knost]

Except when they don't captain and queen raises valid points. Those moves need somethi.g to counter them outside of abilities and items.

Understand that breaking Acc/evasion percentage doesn't "counter" anything. All it does is make a huge part of the game unreliable. 

If you stay within your tier you wouldn't have a problem matching moves. 

If you don't and you try to take on an Ancient w/ an emissary than you choose to be at a disadvantage.

[Snorlax47]

So then, we've decided that this needs to be fixed. The real problem now is, How are we gonna fix it?
Potential roads we can go down:

1: readjustment of the percentage ratios. This would involve changing the percent to which moves could be buffed and/or lowered. This would also mean changing the mathematical formulas used to calculate the monsters temporary stat changes. From what I've read it seems like the moves accuracy isn't being affected at all, and there's an important difference between calculating the decrease from the original percentage (twenty percent of a hundred) as opposed to a percentage of the new stat value ( twenty of the ninty percent)the second is less bastardly on percentages since it takes a smaller percentage then the former. However, this would mean revising most of the whole pvp system  and a lot of the moves.

2: add more moves to the system to counteract the current moves. This is less I.tensive then above and doeant quite deal with the problem but just puts patchwork fixes over them. It is quicker though, and we can use it as a transitionary  thing if necessary. We get a user inspired movepool put together of what needs to be fixed, and then construct a new moves set to help patch what doesn't work now. Get a commitee set up so as to filter things out and be able to make executive decisions without massive indecision from an influx of opinions.

3: dump the system Nd start from scratch. Yea no.

I like the first idea.Sure theres alot of work behind it but its work that will inprove gameplay.

[orboknown]

@ knost- I understand that, but there should stoll be somethin.g to male it less of a sine save and more a rolling curve.
@snor-thats my preference as well.

[Knost]

@ knost- I understand that, but there should stoll be somethin.g to male it less of a sine save and more a rolling curve.
@snor-thats my preference as well.

I think what you're talking about is really strategy based. If you're acc gets lowered quickly then you need to find a move, ability or strat to counter that.

[FalconX]

Again stat resetter.......Many other mons have these moves apart from ancients...also why should ancinet have them they are ment to be the best mons in game, there fore having the best movepools...

[orboknown]

Strategy should be able to outwit sheer muscle any time of the day. Also get at my 73 please.

[iRemember]

Strongly disagree with the idea, (hi btw, I haven't been on much recently xD) and I will list my reasoning now-

Reason #1 - As it is, players who spam accu-decreasing are ridiculously annoying to pvp.
-As knost said in the original post, "We have a lot more monsters with stat resetting moves, we have more acc increasing/evasion decreasing moves" --- While I will not deny this, the number of accu-increasing moves in the game pales in comparison to the number of monsters with absurd moves like Tickle or Glow. As for stat-resetting moves, what typically happens when I use those moves against tickle spammers is that as soon as I reset, (reason 3 will explain further) they then proceed to spam the hell out of Tickle for the next 5 minutes until they run out of MP.  Assuming your monster has no stat-resets or accu-increasing moves, these spammers will take this spam to a whole new level, doing it to every monster you own until you are virtually guaranteed to never-again hit with the accu-decreased monster. (25% accuracy on moves that will typically have 60-70 accu if good)


Reason #2 - To me, the most practical response to players lowering accuracy is to simply use a wall with 1000 accu status moves and/or radiation to take them down. The problem? All the serious pvp players will, almost without exception, always have monsters with perfect body/expert regen + orb.  Perfect body completely nullifies any possibilities of stopping accu-reduction, and radiation will be worthless as well if the accu-lowering monster has an orb, regen, or any heal skill.


Reason #3 - Stat resets don't counter reduction. Let's imagine you have a Phylecter against a monason in pvp.  Mona knows tickle, phylecter knows panacea. Mona uses tickle, accu is now -2. Assuming you don't have a status phylecter, (or the mona has perfect body) what will your response be?  Naturally, blindly swinging around isn't going to get you anywhere. You use panacea to reset stats to hit the mona... Mona then uses tickle again. You use panacea to make hitting the mona possible (again). Assuming you're up against a patient pvp-er, this is going to take a while, and personally, I find repeating the same move for more than 5 turns in a row while making absolutely no progress whatsoever a complete waste of time.


Reason #4 - Only high rarity monsters have any good accu increasing moves. Look at Fendark and Aturion... +3 accu moves that are extremely useful. How many sub-ancient monsters have I seen with similar moves? None. Similarly, I only know of glow on ancients as well. (accu -2, evasion +1) The point being, only players that have ridiculous ancients already, *cough* knost *cough* will benefit in any way from an increase in accu-reduction/increase/evasion increase/reduction.

[Knost]

Strategy should be able to outwit sheer muscle any time of the day. Also get at my 73 please.

I didn't see it lol Let me look.

[Snorlax47]

Not to change topic,but does falcons avatar have cigarette in its hand?

[XxVietBoixX]

no that is just a stick of paper my friend

[TheLegendsGuild]

Ok so Im coming in on three pages of material :-)
For what its worth, I agree with your proposal, but I find it too vague (will explain later on).  
In order to support it, it would require a reformatting of moves, that accuracy and evasion boosts would have to be smaller.  (Say goodbye to -3/+3 boosts)

But my biggest issue is that the issue with PVP extends beyond accuracy/evasion.  And Im not sure if targeting one problem at a time is the way to go.  (I.e moves that reduce 54% of the opponents health is absurd).

I think this should be thought out more.

Oh and BTW Grimarrow should be immune to the accuracy lowering of Tickle... :-p

@Beetall Long time no see :-). We should PVP sometime.

[Knost]

So then, we've decided that this needs to be fixed. The real problem now is, How are we gonna fix it?
Potential roads we can go down:

1: readjustment of the percentage ratios. This would involve changing the percent to which moves could be buffed and/or lowered. This would also mean changing the mathematical formulas used to calculate the monsters temporary stat changes. From what I've read it seems like the moves accuracy isn't being affected at all, and there's an important difference between calculating the decrease from the original percentage (twenty percent of a hundred) as opposed to a percentage of the new stat value ( twenty of the ninty percent)the second is less bastardly on percentages since it takes a smaller percentage then the former. However, this would mean revising most of the whole pvp system  and a lot of the moves.

2: add more moves to the system to counteract the current moves. This is less I.tensive then above and doeant quite deal with the problem but just puts patchwork fixes over them. It is quicker though, and we can use it as a transitionary  thing if necessary. We get a user inspired movepool put together of what needs to be fixed, and then construct a new moves set to help patch what doesn't work now. Get a commitee set up so as to filter things out and be able to make executive decisions without massive indecision from an influx of opinions.

3: dump the system Nd start from scratch. Yea no.

Knowing Cef the first idea won't happen. Not saying it wouldn't work, but it won't happen lol

As for your second idea I agree partially  I think it should be a two step process. Fix the acc and evasion percentages back to 400% and then see how pvp works. 

If it seems like new moves need to be added at that point I'm down. I'll even help prepare them lol

So all that to say, I agreed with your second idea, but lets see how this works first. 

IMO we have the moves in game already to make this a non-issue.