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Some Things to the 2.2.1 Nightheos Update
Crobbywobby Offline
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Exclamation Some Things to the 2.2.1 Nightheos Update
Hey Guys,

I think you all noticed the awesome Update of the Legendary Nightheos.



But there's one thing about it..



I don't know and maybe I am wrong but look:



Compare the Nightheos:
[Image: 868-Nightheos.png] 

To this Guy:
[Image: Jinuga.png]

This Guy is called ''Jinouga''. It's a Monster from the game ''Monster Hunter Portable 3rd'' first published on PSP.

This is also a question to the Artist who created the new Nightheos:
Did you just quick edited it and said its yours or were you inspirated by the Monster and redrew it?






I mean, the same claws, a similar tail, and the same body stance. I want to know if the artist got inspired.



I would be happy if we can discuss down in the comments.

(I dont own any Copyrights of the Monsters shown above, Credits go To Capcom for Picture 2, and Credits go to CeFurkan for Picture 1.)

-Crobby
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(This post was last modified: 10-14-2013 12:59 AM by Crobbywobby.)
10-13-2013 08:43 AM
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RE: Some Things to the 2.2.1 Nightheos Update
As someone who's going into Art & Design as a career, I call it inspiration.
A test for new possibilities on improving their own skills?

Ask the artist himself :/

Oh and on the stance, even I use the stance in my drawings sometimes.
It's a general stance for dragons and other creatures.
(This post was last modified: 10-13-2013 08:47 AM by SparrowHawk.)
10-13-2013 08:45 AM
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ch17175 Offline
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RE: Some Things to the 2.2.1 Nightheos Update
(10-13-2013 08:45 AM)SparrowHawk Wrote:  As someone who's going into Art & Design as a career, I call it inspiration.
A test for new possibilities on improving their own skills?

Ask the artist himself :/

Ditto
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10-13-2013 08:46 AM
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Crobbywobby Offline
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RE: Some Things to the 2.2.1 Nightheos Update
Will do, maybe he will be online soon.
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10-13-2013 08:48 AM
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RE: Some Things to the 2.2.1 Nightheos Update
If you really want to compare it...

Look at ALL the differences. I shouldn't even have to list them.
If you can find any images at all to match all these differences between these 2 creatures, then you have something.

Right now.. blegh. No.
10-13-2013 09:04 AM
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RE: Some Things to the 2.2.1 Nightheos Update
poses and shapes are same
but nothing else

if you check carefully you will see completely different drawing

but i would say nice find
10-13-2013 09:35 AM
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RE: Some Things to the 2.2.1 Nightheos Update
The feet are the same, if u search for a more high definition picture u will see Smile
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10-13-2013 10:02 AM
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RE: Some Things to the 2.2.1 Nightheos Update
Interesting... although It still does take a lot of work/ effort/ artistic skill to change a detailed monster sprite as much as the artist has done... I would say it's a big inspiration tbh.
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RE: Some Things to the 2.2.1 Nightheos Update
I'm going to say you should take that down as fast as possible in order to avoid trouble, seriously. I'll explain why below.

Okay, so here's the deal with art and stuff of the like. I'm going to use ponies, because it's something that I know and can easily work with to compare what's going on here.

Here are three Ponies. The first one is Twilight Sparkle.
Pony A
[Image: twilight_sparkle___for_equestria_with_sh...4wobtn.png]
Notice her stance, and compare it to the character below.
Pony B
[Image: Yelling_at_cats_oc_by_bronyzero.png]
The only difference is the shadow. It's literally the same stance, Although a few modifications have been made, enough that it doesn't look like Twi anymore- However, this common stance is reused.  The stance isn't owned by anyone, if people could copyright sitting or standing, that'd be outrageous.

This next character is called LittlePip.
Pony C
[Image: little_pip_is_not_amused_by_groxy_cyber_...5ld944.png]
Wow. It's the same colour scheme, and minus the mark on it's flank and a jacket, they're almost only gender swapped clones of each other. They could be twins.

Now, when you look at the middle character, he's treated as a musician's OC (original character). That's fine, he is an original character, however, he is NOT original property.


So, Pony A is our character from a show- from original property. The Ponies. Pony B and C are original characters, and they are property of the their owners, despite the fact they look almost totally alike with minor differences.  Now above in this thread,

(10-13-2013 08:43 AM)Crobbywobby Wrote:  Compare the Nightheos:
[Image: 868-Nightheos.png] 

To this Guy:
[Image: Jinuga.png]

This Guy is called ''Jinouga''. It's a Monster from the game ''Monster Hunter Portable 3rd'' first published on PSP.
I mean, the same claws, a similar tail, and the same body stance.

We can see the stance is the same. Okay, that means it's fine. Okay, they've got some features in common- they've got a lot of features in common. So if this was a case of Pony B and Pony C, it would be okay. Pony B and C are both original characters, so all would be well.

Except this isn't a case of Pony B vs. Pony C.
This is a case of Pony B vs. Pony A

Both characters have been made in nearly the inspiration- they are reiminsent of each other, yet different enough to be considered unrelated.

Pony A is original property- and so is the character/Monster (from PSP) above. So while the monster you've got is an ORIGINAL CHARACTER, that does not define that it is ORIGINAL CONTENT. It's essentially fanart of the PSP character (name change, colour change, a few features are altered), which there are laws about.
And there is a deal about fanart in US law: It's actually illegal.
Why aren't thousands of people getting sued?: Because they don't make money off it- It's extremely hard to enforce since there is no loss on the company's part.
However, this time you're making money off this fanart of a character.
Now you've violated core copyright law. It is a lawsuit.

I'll be the first to admit that you'll probably never have an issue with this, because no lawyer would ever take this case and push it when things are so small scale- but once this game is out of it's beta, if you leave that monster in there, chances only increase that a lawsuit may come about. You're not using this "fanart" (which includes direct inspiration, adaptation, modifications, ect) in a non for profit way. The point of running this is to have a business, you want to make money, because if you don't make money, you can't keep the site running and improve the game.

But you can't make money if you're using someone else's work, even when it's fanart like this, because then you get lawsuits.

If anyone disagrees/has further comment on this/ wants to debate, I'd love to talk this out, I may have missed something somewhere, and let's face it, copyright law is some of the most overcomplicated, corrupt things you can ever touch.
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10-13-2013 04:17 PM
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RE: Some Things to the 2.2.1 Nightheos Update
(10-13-2013 04:17 PM)Nitz_X Wrote:  I'm going to say you should take that down as fast as possible in order to avoid trouble, seriously. I'll explain why below.

Okay, so here's the deal with art and stuff of the like. I'm going to use ponies, because it's something that I know and can easily work with to compare what's going on here.

Here are three Ponies. The first one is Twilight Sparkle.
Pony A
[Image: twilight_sparkle___for_equestria_with_sh...4wobtn.png]
Notice her stance, and compare it to the character below.
Pony B
[Image: Yelling_at_cats_oc_by_bronyzero.png]
The only difference is the shadow. It's literally the same stance, Although a few modifications have been made, enough that it doesn't look like Twi anymore- However, this common stance is reused.  The stance isn't owned by anyone, if people could copyright sitting or standing, that'd be outrageous.

This next character is called LittlePip.
Pony C
[Image: little_pip_is_not_amused_by_groxy_cyber_...5ld944.png]
Wow. It's the same colour scheme, and minus the mark on it's flank and a jacket, they're almost only gender swapped clones of each other. They could be twins.

Now, when you look at the middle character, he's treated as a musician's OC (original character). That's fine, he is an original character, however, he is NOT original property.


So, Pony A is our character from a show- from original property. The Ponies. Pony B and C are original characters, and they are property of the their owners, despite the fact they look almost totally alike with minor differences.  Now above in this thread,

(10-13-2013 08:43 AM)Crobbywobby Wrote:  Compare the Nightheos:
[Image: 868-Nightheos.png] 

To this Guy:
[Image: Jinuga.png]

This Guy is called ''Jinouga''. It's a Monster from the game ''Monster Hunter Portable 3rd'' first published on PSP.
I mean, the same claws, a similar tail, and the same body stance.

We can see the stance is the same. Okay, that means it's fine. Okay, they've got some features in common- they've got a lot of features in common. So if this was a case of Pony B and Pony C, it would be okay. Pony B and C are both original characters, so all would be well.

Except this isn't a case of Pony B vs. Pony C.
This is a case of Pony B vs. Pony A

Both characters have been made in nearly the inspiration- they are reiminsent of each other, yet different enough to be considered unrelated.

Pony A is original property- and so is the character/Monster (from PSP) above. So while the monster you've got is an ORIGINAL CHARACTER, that does not define that it is ORIGINAL CONTENT. It's essentially fanart of the PSP character (name change, colour change, a few features are altered), which there are laws about.
And there is a deal about fanart in US law: It's actually illegal.
Why aren't thousands of people getting sued?: Because they don't make money off it- It's extremely hard to enforce since there is no loss on the company's part.
However, this time you're making money off this fanart of a character.
Now you've violated core copyright law. It is a lawsuit.

I'll be the first to admit that you'll probably never have an issue with this, because no lawyer would ever take this case and push it when things are so small scale- but once this game is out of it's beta, if you leave that monster in there, chances only increase that a lawsuit may come about. You're not using this "fanart" (which includes direct inspiration, adaptation, modifications, ect) in a non for profit way. The point of running this is to have a business, you want to make money, because if you don't make money, you can't keep the site running and improve the game.

But you can't make money if you're using someone else's work, even when it's fanart like this, because then you get lawsuits.

If anyone disagrees/has further comment on this/ wants to debate, I'd love to talk this out, I may have missed something somewhere, and let's face it, copyright law is some of the most overcomplicated, corrupt things you can ever touch.

Really beautiful.
Thanks Nitz.
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10-13-2013 05:52 PM
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RE: Some Things to the 2.2.1 Nightheos Update
Note: I do support my first argument personally, you should remove the monster until you can find some way to remedy possible legal repercussions. 
Note2: Lolzinator, There is a Thank You button, but I appreciate that you quoted me, (bow) I'm glad you liked my piece above.


Also, as an addition to what I've said above, I wanted to provide some other examples besides my colourful horses.

[Image: PIKACHU-pikachu-29274386-861-927_%281%29.jpg]Here is Pikachu. He's a pokemon, and is both an Original Character and Original Property of his respective owners.

[Image: Oekaki-Rocketchu-rocketchus-28629807-350-350.png] Here is "Rocketchu", a fan made character.  He's an original character, but he's still not original property.

Here's a little glitch you might see in fanart- Rocketchu is public domain. Where the character has been used, he's been reincorporated and reintroduced in so many ways no one can honestly tell where he came from in the first place (some people mention that it might have been from an episode in the show, where it is implied)

So that means anyone can use this character? Yep, because no one can exactly figure out where the Original Character came from- But we do all know he's a Pikachu, we know that he's a character with heavy, direct influence drawn from Pikachu. So while anyone in the fan community can use him, they still can't make money off him, since the character is, in his own way, described as part of the Pokemon Universe.


Which brings me around to defeating one of my earlier points.

It's very important to note how characters are described. LittlePip is from Fallout:Equestria, she's directly related to MLP. The OC in the middle, he's used in relation to music that are fan tributes to the MLP universe.

This same idea applies to the rocketchu example above.

So if you can describe this character as different, and describe it as having no relation to the previous creature, you can actually make yourself safer.
The issue we encounter now is that this game lacks lore- You don't have any depth to the story or historical value, there isn't any sort of explanation for this monster, or where it comes from. You're not working to make it seem different, and based off of looks alone, it seems like a cheap imitation- which is still a lawsuit. If you wanted to salvage this monster without having it redrawn, you're going to have to overhaul your entire storytelling system and give some history.

But as far as I know, this game doesn't have a comic, a story it's based from, or even storyboard writers.

It's highly unlikely that it's reasonable to hire a storyboard, and that would take an entire team- That's assuming you don't do a comic series, and just want a text story to go with it.

My counterargument to myself here is that you can certainly avoid a lawsuit, but in order to do so you're going to have to look at creating a team that can assess the situation and not write fanon about this game- let them write canon. Create a story, do some universe building. Even a basic few sentence outline for this monster's history could serve to defeat most lawsuits, or make it so frivolous that it wouldn't be worth the resources to pursue.
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RE: Some Things to the 2.2.1 Nightheos Update
It seems like you didn't read my whole post, this is a question to the Artist who made the Nightheos Update. I just wanted to know if he got inspired by the Monster. Cheers.
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10-14-2013 12:52 AM
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RE: Some Things to the 2.2.1 Nightheos Update
(10-14-2013 12:52 AM)Crobbywobby Wrote:   Cheers.

Translation: Kanpai!
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RE: Some Things to the 2.2.1 Nightheos Update
i know Nitz, it just felt more... Real, to quote You instead Smile
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RE: Some Things to the 2.2.1 Nightheos Update
i will tell artist to redraw to be 100% secure Smile

and there is absolutely nothing to worry about

this image copyrights not owned by them
it is by us

@Nitz_X u really should leave this game


i can see the hatred inside of you. you wouldn't do anything if i told you to do for the game. but it seems like u made a lot of research for this subject.
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RE: Some Things to the 2.2.1 Nightheos Update
(10-14-2013 05:42 AM)CeFurkan Wrote:  i will tell artist to redraw to be 100% secure Smile

and there is absolutely nothing to worry about

this image copyrights not owned by them
it is by us

@Nitz_X u really should leave this game


i can see the hatred inside of you. you wouldn't do anything if i told you to do for the game. but it seems like u made a lot of research for this subject.

Whoa whoa whoa, hold on.

Hatred? If I hated this game, I would not have typed out two very long posts. Law happens to be my primary course of study, and that's why I am researched in it.

I will admit something though, you're right- I wouldn't do something for the game if I was told to do so, because I do things of my own free will. I was trying to be helpful.

Why the heck is the admin telling players to leave? especially players like me who have been with you for years that are trying to be helpful?
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RE: Some Things to the 2.2.1 Nightheos Update
(10-14-2013 05:42 AM)CeFurkan Wrote:  @Nitz_X u really should leave this game

what
the
freaking
heck

i dont give a crap if you own this game it is not your place to tell somebody to just leave.. seriously is it unnatural that i just lost a lot of respect that i had for you?

NOT COOL CEF.
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RE: Some Things to the 2.2.1 Nightheos Update
(10-13-2013 08:43 AM)Crobbywobby Wrote:  Hey Guys,

I think you all noticed the awesome Update of the Legendary Nightheos.



But there's one thing about it..



I don't know and maybe I am wrong but look:



Compare the Nightheos:
[Image: 868-Nightheos.png] 

To this Guy:
[Image: Jinuga.png]

This Guy is called ''Jinouga''. It's a Monster from the game ''Monster Hunter Portable 3rd'' first published on PSP.

This is also a question to the Artist who created the new Nightheos:
Did you just quick edited it and said its yours or were you inspirated by the Monster and redrew it?






I mean, the same claws, a similar tail, and the same body stance. I want to know if the artist got inspired.



I would be happy if we can discuss down in the comments.

(I dont own any Copyrights of the Monsters shown above, Credits go To Capcom for Picture 2, and Credits go to CeFurkan for Picture 1.)

-Crobby

Hi thank you for bringing this subject to everyone attention, for quick answer, yes, I was inspired by Jinouga Monster Hunter but no, I didn't at all QUICK edit it and said it was mine. Unless, if you call hours of drawing is "quick edit".

I was aiming to make Nighteos as great as I could. That's why I researched and did what I think the best for CeFurkan and his game. In my opinion, Jinouga in Monster Hunter has what I take to achieve my aim, that's why I used it as my inspiration. And, for the 'hater' out there, let's take a quick look

[Image: Jinuga.png][Image: Nightheos-300.png][Image: 868-Nightheos.png]


If you really insisted, I can admit that, their claws looks the same, although to be honest, I can't say I'm agree. I made the claws while looking at the original one, I want to preserve its attributes. And I understand about the stance, they are the same, although can you say my redrawn Nighteos is in different stance with the original one? Smile

BUT, if you said, they have 'similar' tail, wow, you lost me there. AND, if you can say what I did is just a 'QUICK EDIT', then please, by all means, look for another artist that didn't do your 'QUICK EDIT'.

@Nitz_X : ok, maybe I didn't study law as great as you, but you really can see my Nighteos as fan art Jinouga? In one side, I'm flattered my drawing is that good so you can see my Nighteos as fan art Jinouga, BUT, in other side, you insult Monster Hunter fans out there, I personally didn't dare to call my draw as fan art Jinouga, it's way too different. I made the crystal in its tail and its head, I made the horns like that, I even didn't take Jinouga body, what I take just the pose. And if you say about original property, then what? Should CeFurkan close his game because of Pokemon?

No, I didn't mad to you guys, I'm grateful you guys care so much to this game, and yes I'm new artist and player here, but I also want to give my best for someone who trust me and give me my job. So please, understand that. For those who understand me and CeFurkan, thank you so much, I know no matter what we do, there's always someone who can badmouth you without give a thought how big our effort is.
10-14-2013 11:37 AM
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RE: Some Things to the 2.2.1 Nightheos Update
Wow... Lots of tension going on in this threadSad
10-14-2013 11:39 AM
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RE: Some Things to the 2.2.1 Nightheos Update
You could cut it with a machete.
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10-14-2013 11:41 AM
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RE: Some Things to the 2.2.1 Nightheos Update
it looks beautiful all the same
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10-14-2013 11:43 AM
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RE: Some Things to the 2.2.1 Nightheos Update
Whats beautiful?
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RE: Some Things to the 2.2.1 Nightheos Update
the new nightheos Big Grin
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10-14-2013 11:55 AM
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RE: Some Things to the 2.2.1 Nightheos Update
Oh yeah, alex. Nightheos will always be awesome. Don't listen to anything anyone else says and just do you.
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RE: Some Things to the 2.2.1 Nightheos Update
I'm closing this discussion. Artist gave you an answer. No need to continue this.
If you want to give an apology or whatever, send alexander-john a pm. He's a new artist here and we welcome him with open arms, right?
We welcome all with open arms. We're still a growing community.
10-14-2013 12:10 PM
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Post: #26
RE: Some Things to the 2.2.1 Nightheos Update
Just chiming in i think nitz was perfectly in line
Quote: Do you hear the Whisper Men The Whisper Men are near
If you hear the Whisper Men then turn away your ears
Do not hear the Whisper Men whatever else you do
For once you've heard the Whisper Men they'll stop. And look at you.
10-22-2013 10:56 AM
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