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Accuracy and Evasion reliability issues in V2
Knost Offline
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Post: #151
RE: Accuracy and Evasion reliability issues in V2
Thanks Nade good quote Smile Luck shouldn't be so much of a factor. That's why we're doing this.
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(This post was last modified: 04-30-2013 11:08 AM by Knost.)
04-30-2013 11:07 AM
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Post: #152
RE: Accuracy and Evasion reliability issues in V2
Look how much support we're getting!

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04-30-2013 11:10 AM
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Aladdin Offline
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Post: #153
RE: Accuracy and Evasion reliability issues in V2
I have to say, After fixing the accuracy/evasion system as Knost mentioned. The gameplay of PVPing will be more attractive and the strategies will even gets better and better. Believe it or not fixing this issue Will make the pvp system allot more interesting.
04-30-2013 11:13 AM
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Cpt. Obvious Offline
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Post: #154
RE: Accuracy and Evasion reliability issues in V2
(04-30-2013 11:13 AM)Aladdin Wrote:  I have to say, After fixing the accuracy/evasion system as Knost mentioned. The gameplay of PVPing will be more attractive and the strategies will even gets better and better. Believe it or not fixing this issue Will make the pvp system allot more interesting.
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04-30-2013 11:15 AM
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Post: #155
RE: Accuracy and Evasion reliability issues in V2
(04-29-2013 05:37 AM)undefined Wrote:  Supporters:
1. Knost
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3. Scarlet Raven
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04-30-2013 11:21 AM
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Post: #156
RE: Accuracy and Evasion reliability issues in V2
(04-30-2013 05:22 AM)Knost Wrote:  25%/400%(Acc/EvasionIsn't that risky because the game has seen it before and PVP was great. Strategy was being used more than it is now because you could switch in and out with some reliability. Also because Acc and Evasion was higher (right) you had to account for it (more strategy) which imo is a must.

I've thought through this change so it won't change more than I imagine.


Maybe if moves weren't so unreliable right now as they are, then I'd understand better. I didn't play enough of the previous version to understand the difference.

I'm working closely with the person who's making the new move pool so I know for a fact that not only will this fixed accuracy / evasion system work with the current moves, but it will work even better with the new moves. 

The reasons for this fact are these. The accuracy of the moves will be getting a slight boost (rounding up), moves will be more widely and selectively distributed, and moves will have more reliable (it's gonna be a thing watch) effects.
 

Well I'm glad to hear you thought this out to go along with future changes, though I still believe waiting until the changes have been made would be smarter. But it's something.

Like I said earlier, the moves will be getting a slight accuracy boost so that takes care of your last sentence. As for the rest, I've said it 900 times and I'll say it again, a 20% chance to hit is way too much. If you get an enemy monsters accuracy down to -5 and get your evasion up to +5, you should almost never be hit. A 20% chance isn't acceptable for almost never being hit. 

There should be reliability in PVP if there isn't then you're just feeding PVP to luck, which is unacceptable and short sighted.


Luck has been a huge part of this game since I returned, and I agree that it's bad for strategy, which is why I was glad to hear about the future moveset change. (I'll stop going on about that now.)

Maybe this is because you don't use a switch in strategy? IDK 

Whatever your problem with this is there's no reason to have an attitude. I haven't done anything to you personally so lets try to stay mature here.


I apologize if it sounded like I had an attitude, I did not intend for it to be taken that way. I was more implying that strategy comes in different forms, setting up shouldn't be your only goal to succeed. I just found the thought of solely depending on set-ups to succeed was kinda silly, and a waste on something as fragile as a glass cannon.

I meant no offense.

As for your last argument. 1/5 would at least be reliable lol, but unfortunately that's not how our game works. It works off of a percentage chance. So it's a 20% chance to hit every turn which, as people who PVP often can tell you, will turn into multiple hit's in a row from a monster that has no business hitting anything. 

You want "strategy" throw in reliability so that the plan you come up with work's every time. I know it's easier to attack needlessly and hit because the acc/evasion percentages are messed up, but  this game is played by smart people that put a lot of time into coming up with sound strategies. Leaving something as important as Acc and evasion up to chance, because you don't see how it's "so horrible" doesn't work. I see how it's horrible and it need's to change. 

BTW  "Maybe you shouldn't waste all your time setting up. You know, it's called strategy?"  Setting up is strategy guy, wait till this issue isn't broken anymore and you'll understand that.


I await this time with great interest. Luck is a big problem with the battling on this site, and hope to see that corrected.

You're welcome.

Thank you, though I'd like to point out that that wasn't for you. I know that you read all the replies, that was just for someone/anyone else in this board who couldn't be bothered with math to actually read my post thoroughly.

So yeah, if I seemed snippy, that was completely unintentional.

I do wish you luck on changing the pvp's unreliability, and hope to see whether this is the correct route.
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04-30-2013 11:33 AM
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Knost Offline
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Post: #157
RE: Accuracy and Evasion reliability issues in V2
Thank's Emissary. 

Once this is corrected if we need to add more moves, we will be able to (it's much easier to add the moves all at once rather than adding some now and some later). That's why I wanted this fixed first. 

Have a good day.
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(This post was last modified: 04-30-2013 11:41 AM by Knost.)
04-30-2013 11:38 AM
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shadowolf22 Offline
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Post: #158
RE: Accuracy and Evasion reliability issues in V2
Your right they need to fix that i support. Smile
04-30-2013 12:05 PM
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Knost Offline
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Post: #159
RE: Accuracy and Evasion reliability issues in V2
Thanks Shadow! 

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04-30-2013 12:31 PM
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War Offline
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Post: #160
RE: Accuracy and Evasion reliability issues in V2
why are r so many ppl against this idea!!!!!   j mean come on are u guys blind or just retarded -_-
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04-30-2013 01:22 PM
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Knost Offline
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Post: #161
RE: Accuracy and Evasion reliability issues in V2
(04-30-2013 01:22 PM)War Wrote:  why are r so many ppl against this idea!!!!!   j mean come on are u guys blind -_-
There have been 4 people against this idea lol

And 2 of them came around and are now supporters Smile

That's hardly a lot of people. 

45 to 2 lol

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04-30-2013 01:25 PM
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War Offline
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Post: #162
RE: Accuracy and Evasion reliability issues in V2
lol...regardless knost i dont see how ANYONE could be against this idea lol
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04-30-2013 01:30 PM
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Knost Offline
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Post: #163
RE: Accuracy and Evasion reliability issues in V2
(04-30-2013 01:30 PM)War Wrote:  lol...regardless knost i dont see how ANYONE could be against this idea lol
LOL
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04-30-2013 01:46 PM
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TheLegendsGuild Offline
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Post: #164
RE: Accuracy and Evasion reliability issues in V2
(04-30-2013 01:25 PM)Knost Wrote:  
(04-30-2013 01:22 PM)War Wrote:  why are r so many ppl against this idea!!!!!   j mean come on are u guys blind -_-
There have been 4 people against this idea lol

And 2 of them came around and are now supporters Smile

That's hardly a lot of people. 

45 to 2 lol
@Knost: So for the record, I was never *against* the idea, and the original post I wrote reflects that. In fact I say," For what its worth, I agree with your proposal, but I find it too vague (will explain later on). "

 I just wasn't quick to support it and remained neutral about it for a period of time. (so I really hope you arent counting me) Tongue

This also answer's War's question.  The biggest issue for me about making these types of changes is that they may ignore the big picture of how PVPing should be.  And without a master plan, then PVPing just won't be as fun.

For example, I feel like much of the move pool is repetitive.  I feel that new attacks should be introduced and replace boring ones.

 There should be more thematic moves among types, i.e electricity with paralysis and accuracy decreasing, fighting with bleeding,  dark with evasion, etc.  And so when making all of these *changes* or proposing them, it's good to know what the big plan is; where things will lead to.

@Orboknown: I think this at least partially answers your question. 

Back @War: The reason why it seemed I was so quick to agree with Knost was because we had been talking about this issue for three pages on a prior deleted thread.  So when Knost succinctly addressed my concerns in his response that pretty much ends the story

-Uri.
(This post was last modified: 04-30-2013 03:25 PM by TheLegendsGuild.)
04-30-2013 03:23 PM
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Post: #165
RE: Accuracy and Evasion reliability issues in V2
back in v1, i didnt really see too much of a problem with the accuracy and evasion since i knew how to counter it easy but here you can't even get the chance to protect yourself with an illusion full of smoke and mirrors without it being caught and its secrets being revealed in no time.

in other words you can't defend yourself with 200% evasion and 20% accuracy(on the enemy monster) or  whatever without your monster dying on the first hit after the setup. 

i support changing back to 400% evasion and accuracy.

P.S.-sorry post may be rusty, very late where im at and im so tired.
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04-30-2013 03:25 PM
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Knost Offline
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Post: #166
RE: Accuracy and Evasion reliability issues in V2
(04-30-2013 03:23 PM)TheLegendsGuild Wrote:  
(04-30-2013 01:25 PM)Knost Wrote:  
(04-30-2013 01:22 PM)War Wrote:  why are r so many ppl against this idea!!!!!   j mean come on are u guys blind -_-
There have been 4 people against this idea lol

And 2 of them came around and are now supporters Smile

That's hardly a lot of people. 

45 to 2 lol
@Knost: So for the record, I was never *against* the idea, and the original post I wrote reflects that.  In fact I say," For what its worth, I agree with your proposal, but I find it too vague (will explain later on).  "

 I just wasn't quick to support it and remained neutral about it for a period of time. (so I really hope you arent counting me) Tongue

This also answer's War's question.  The biggest issue for me about making these types of changes is that they may ignore the big picture of how PVPing should be.  And without a master plan, then PVPing just won't be as fun.

For example, I feel like much of the move pool is repetitive.  I feel that new attacks should be introduced and replace boring ones.

 There should be more thematic moves among types, i.e electricity with paralysis and accuracy decreasing, fighting with bleeding,  dark with evasion, etc.  And so when making all of these *changes* or proposing them, it's good to know what the big plan is; where things will lead to.

@Orboknown: I think this at least partially answers your question. 

Back @War: The reason why it seemed I was so quick to agree with Knost was because we had been talking about this issue for three pages on a prior deleted thread.  So when Knost succinctly addressed my concerns in his response that pretty much ends the story

-Uri.
lol Sounds good man. I agree with everything you just said. 

I'm not saying this is an all inclusive one time fix for pvp, but rather, in my opinion, this is the most logical first step towards fixing pvp.

Edit: Also, surprisingly, given our past debates, I didn't count you lol
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04-30-2013 03:30 PM
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Knost Offline
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Post: #167
RE: Accuracy and Evasion reliability issues in V2
(04-30-2013 03:25 PM)Guider456 Wrote:  back in v1, i didnt really see too much of a problem with the accuracy and evasion since i knew how to counter it easy but here you can't even get the chance to protect yourself with an illusion full of smoke and mirrors without it being caught and its secrets being revealed in no time.

in other words you can't defend yourself with 200% evasion and 20% accuracy(on the enemy monster) or  whatever without your monster dying on the first hit after the setup. 

i support changing back to 400% evasion and accuracy.

P.S.-sorry post may be rusty, very late where im at and im so tired.
I understood what you were saying lol Thanks for the support and reasoning Guider. Smile
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04-30-2013 03:32 PM
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Post: #168
RE: Accuracy and Evasion reliability issues in V2
has my vote Smile
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04-30-2013 04:29 PM
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Knost Offline
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Post: #169
RE: Accuracy and Evasion reliability issues in V2
I got you down man Smile
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04-30-2013 04:41 PM
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Post: #170
RE: Accuracy and Evasion reliability issues in V2
I think it makes sense Big Grin
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04-30-2013 06:46 PM
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Knost Offline
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Post: #171
RE: Accuracy and Evasion reliability issues in V2
(04-30-2013 06:46 PM)garez123321 Wrote:  I think it makes sense Big Grin
Thanks, I think the change makes sense also Smile

I added you!
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04-30-2013 06:51 PM
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Post: #172
RE: Accuracy and Evasion reliability issues in V2
I support
04-30-2013 07:11 PM
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Post: #173
RE: Accuracy and Evasion reliability issues in V2
Yes, I agree, totally. With the new movepools in V2, I think it's the previous accuracy and evasion count should be brought back in this version.
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05-01-2013 12:19 AM
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Post: #174
RE: Accuracy and Evasion reliability issues in V2
system change is depended on new move system being made by henrie
if she plans new system according to it i will change how the game works
05-01-2013 07:23 AM
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Knost Offline
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Post: #175
RE: Accuracy and Evasion reliability issues in V2
(05-01-2013 07:23 AM)CeFurkan Wrote:  system change is depended on new move system being made by henrie
if she plans new system according to it i will change how the game works
Sounds great. When I talked to her about it she was on board with changing it back, so good news! 

Thanks Cefurkan!
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05-01-2013 07:24 AM
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Post: #176
RE: Accuracy and Evasion reliability issues in V2
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CeFurkan Wrote: Wrote:system change is depended on new move system being made by henrie
if she plans new system according to it i will change how the game works
Sounds great. When I talked to her about it she was on board with changing it back, so good news! 

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05-01-2013 07:52 AM
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Aladdin Offline
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Post: #177
RE: Accuracy and Evasion reliability issues in V2
This is the most epic reply I ever seen hahahaha.

Great job.

Keep up the good work knost.
05-01-2013 07:55 AM
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Post: #178
RE: Accuracy and Evasion reliability issues in V2
Remmy, that was the most amazing thing ever.
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05-01-2013 08:40 AM
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Post: #179
RE: Accuracy and Evasion reliability issues in V2
Remmy you're the best. 

That it all lol
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05-01-2013 09:00 AM
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Heart RE: Accuracy and Evasion reliability issues in V2
I see Dr who and scrubs in there good Taste rembro.
Preemptively stating I can help henrie with at least the ideas and designing of the system,
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05-01-2013 11:06 AM
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